<div dir="ltr">Justin, David,<div><br></div><div>Please take this discussion off of the mailing list if you wish to continue to argue. This is anti-constructive and no longer on-topic.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Tyler</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><span></span>Tyler Crumpton<span><font color="#888888"><br><a href="mailto:tyler.crumpton@gmail.com" target="_blank">tyler.crumpton@gmail.com</a><br>
</font></span></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Justin Richards <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ratmandu@gmail.com" target="_blank">ratmandu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Nope, it was your responsibility to learn about the item you purchased. You did not research something you spent tens of thousands of dollars on. It's all on you, buddy.</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:30 PM, David <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ainut@knology.net" target="_blank">ainut@knology.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Are you going to fund that, Justin?<div><div><br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>Justin Richards wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">This isn't some kind of <b>illuminati conspiracy</b>,
        this is a device that records the last few seconds of vehicle
        telemetry, including airbag deployment info, vehicle speed,
        brake application time, brake force, throttle position,
        accelerometer and roll/yaw data, steering position, etc. 
        <div>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div>It can be used to determine fault, though it is not enough
          to truly determine that, and anyway, 99% of the time, nobody
          will ever look at it.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>It's not something that's open, not because the car
          manufacturers need to be protected, but because giving that
          much raw data to your standard lay-person, especially after a
          wreck, is like giving ECG output of a person having a heart
          attack to a monkey, and asking the monkey to identify the
          person who gave that guy a heart attack. That much raw data is
          going to confuse and enrage, and there is also the issue of
          bias.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>If you feel that it is an issue, in the event of a wreck,
          you can deny law enforcement access to your OBDII port at the
          scene of the wreck, and request they get a warrant for the
          data, in which case you should become familiar with the
          location of the EDR, and destroy it before they get the
          warrant, at which point you might get a nice charge of
          destruction of evidence. </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Otherwise, <b><font size="6">go get a vehicle that does
              not have an EDR.</font></b></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:36 PM,
          WebDawg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:webdawg@gmail.com" target="_blank">webdawg@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>Why not?  An undocumented box that police and
                insurance companies use to tell if you are at fault. 
                Who even knows if it works correctly and even gives real
                true data.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              <div>Its like the voting machine thing.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              Something like this should be mandatory open, not locked
              up to protect car manufactures.
              <div>
                <div><br>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                        <br>
                        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at
                          9:15 AM, James Fluhler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:j.fluhler@gmail.com" target="_blank">j.fluhler@gmail.com</a>></span>
                          wrote:<br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                            <div dir="ltr">Just curious but why would
                              you want to disable it? Presuming it does
                              not emit a signal and is simply a data
                              recorder in the vent of a crash.<br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                  <br>
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                                    On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 5:20 PM,
                                    WebDawg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:webdawg@gmail.com" target="_blank">webdawg@gmail.com</a>></span>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div>
                                          <div>I would think about, from
                                            what I have read so far,
                                            instead of disabling it
                                            (says integrated into
                                            electronics) figuring out a
                                            way to auto wipe it.<br>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>It looks like it records
                                            around the crash, and has
                                            limited capacity.<br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div><br>
                                            <a href="http://wiki.hackspherelabs.com/index.php?title=2010_Chevy_Equinox" target="_blank">http://wiki.hackspherelabs.com/index.php?title=2010_Chevy_Equinox</a><br>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                          Chevy has a GMLAN interface
                                          that lets you do all sorts of
                                          stuff, i never got into it but
                                          you can intercept and send
                                          commands.  if the box is
                                          linked to it, that would be a
                                          start.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Someone just interfaced with a
                                          car at defcon or some
                                          conference I thought.<br>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                        You are going to have to hack
                                        it.  I mean read this (i know it
                                        is crappy fox news)  <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/03/04/toyota-secretive-black-box-data/" target="_blank">http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/03/04/toyota-secretive-black-box-data/</a><br>


                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                            <br>
                                            <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                              Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:12
                                              PM, David <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ainut@knology.net" target="_blank">ainut@knology.net</a>></span>
                                              wrote:<br>
                                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
                                                Just discovered my
                                                Toyota truck has a
                                                "black box," a data
                                                recorder in it.  How can
                                                I disable that
                                                <censored> and
                                                still have the truck
                                                work?<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Thanks,<br>
                                                David Merchant<br>
                                                <br>
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