[General] vehicle black boxes

Fri Mar 21 17:27:18 CDT 2014

As a police officer in Huntsville, the city in which you are most likely to
have an accident, I can assure you that your EDR data will not be used to
determine if you are or are not at fault in an accident.  Your EDR data
will not be accessed at all.  HPD does not have the equipment to access
that, or any other data from your vehicle's onboard computer system, and I
am not aware of any police department in the state that does have that
equipment.  In fact, if you were to somehow copy the data from your EDR and
bring it to us, we would have no idea what to do with it.
HPD can't get enough of a budget to keep our patrol cars running.  The only
way we could get that kind of technology is if someone donated it.
On the other hand, if an officer were working an accident and noticed that
part of the engine control system had been tampered with or modified, he
would probably make a few calls to find out what it was and whether or not
the modification caused the accident.  EDR systems are too technologically
advanced for us to use them.  Cell phones are not.  I recommend just
leaving it alone.  You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to
have your black box data used against you.

On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Tyler Crumpton <tyler.crumpton at gmail.com>wrote:

> Justin, David,
>
> Please take this discussion off of the mailing list if you wish to
> continue to argue. This is anti-constructive and no longer on-topic.
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>
> Tyler Crumpton
> tyler.crumpton at gmail.com
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Justin Richards <ratmandu at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Nope, it was your responsibility to learn about the item you purchased.
>> You did not research something you spent tens of thousands of dollars on.
>> It's all on you, buddy.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:30 PM, David <ainut at knology.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  Are you going to fund that, Justin?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Justin Richards wrote:
>>>
>>> This isn't some kind of *illuminati conspiracy*, this is a device that
>>> records the last few seconds of vehicle telemetry, including airbag
>>> deployment info, vehicle speed, brake application time, brake force,
>>> throttle position, accelerometer and roll/yaw data, steering position,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>>  It can be used to determine fault, though it is not enough to truly
>>> determine that, and anyway, 99% of the time, nobody will ever look at it.
>>>
>>>  It's not something that's open, not because the car manufacturers need
>>> to be protected, but because giving that much raw data to your standard
>>> lay-person, especially after a wreck, is like giving ECG output of a person
>>> having a heart attack to a monkey, and asking the monkey to identify the
>>> person who gave that guy a heart attack. That much raw data is going to
>>> confuse and enrage, and there is also the issue of bias.
>>>
>>>  If you feel that it is an issue, in the event of a wreck, you can deny
>>> law enforcement access to your OBDII port at the scene of the wreck, and
>>> request they get a warrant for the data, in which case you should become
>>> familiar with the location of the EDR, and destroy it before they get the
>>> warrant, at which point you might get a nice charge of destruction of
>>> evidence.
>>>
>>>  Otherwise, *go get a vehicle that does not have an EDR.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:36 PM, WebDawg <webdawg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Why not?  An undocumented box that police and insurance companies use
>>>> to tell if you are at fault.  Who even knows if it works correctly and even
>>>> gives real true data.
>>>>
>>>>  Its like the voting machine thing.
>>>>
>>>>  Something like this should be mandatory open, not locked up to protect
>>>> car manufactures.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 9:15 AM, James Fluhler <j.fluhler at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just curious but why would you want to disable it? Presuming it does
>>>>> not emit a signal and is simply a data recorder in the vent of a crash.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 5:20 PM, WebDawg <webdawg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  I would think about, from what I have read so far, instead of
>>>>>> disabling it (says integrated into electronics) figuring out a way to auto
>>>>>> wipe it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  It looks like it records around the crash, and has limited capacity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://wiki.hackspherelabs.com/index.php?title=2010_Chevy_Equinox
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Chevy has a GMLAN interface that lets you do all sorts of stuff, i
>>>>>> never got into it but you can intercept and send commands.  if the box is
>>>>>> linked to it, that would be a start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Someone just interfaced with a car at defcon or some conference I
>>>>>> thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  You are going to have to hack it.  I mean read this (i know it is
>>>>>> crappy fox news)
>>>>>> http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/03/04/toyota-secretive-black-box-data/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:12 PM, David <ainut at knology.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just discovered my Toyota truck has a "black box," a data recorder
>>>>>>> in it.  How can I disable that <censored> and still have the truck work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> David Merchant
>>>>>>>
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